Exactly! Of course suicide is preventable. We all need to be more willing to be our brothers' keepers.

I am glad that your attempts failed and am glad that you are happy to be here. I truly enjoy your blog and your videos.

I did not see the article, but would like to. Any chance you could send it along?

I don't think that suicide can be totally eliminated or prevented but I suspect that is not what you or the article is saying.

I think suicide can be greatly reduced. I think that some people will kill themselves no matter what. They will try in a moment of utter despair and will succeed. I thought many times about killing myself, and did quite a bit of research on how best to do it (couldn't stand the thought of a gun). I came very close to attempting it a number of times. In the end what kept me from doing it was not having the proper means, fear it would not be successful....and having a wife and kids.

A teenager I know attempted suicide and failed. It was a long road back but she is a vibrant, healthy, beautiful person today.

Everyone is worth saving.

It disturbs me that as a bipolar, I could go buy a gun today. I am in favor of background checks (to be fair, I am in favor of pretty strict gun laws in general).

We spend a fair amount of time in Taos, NM where the Gorge Bridge is a spot where there are half a dozen suicides a year......yet, despite this, the town/state has not done anything to make it more difficult to jump from the bridge. The bridge is a big tourist spot, and maybe they do not want to interfere with the sightseeing, but I am not an engineer and even I have thought of a way to protect people and preserve the sightseeing.

At the risk of sounding like some sort of Freakonomics geek, I'd like to see if anyone has ever done any studies on suicide prevention and does it work? Have suicide hotlines lowered the rate of suicide? Do countries with strict gun laws have lower suicide rates? Does access to better mental health care lower suicide rates? My guess is the answer to all these is yes. But even of the answer is no, you keep trying.

Sorry for the rambling response.

With the recent ruling on the 2nd amendment rights of Americans to carry guns, my status as a person with a mental illness came to a new light for me. With all of the challenges I have faced due to my bipolar disorder, I feel frustrated that this inalienable right is specifically not mine, because I've been hospitalized for mental illness. However, I agree with you that if I had access to a firearm, I'd likely not be here to comment on your blog post! It's one of the reasons I've always stayed far away from firearms.

I haven't read the article in question yet, in part because I'm concerned it might be triggering for me. I've had many moments of that intense 'torture' of which you spoke, intermingled with months-long periods of daily suicidal ideation, so I don't think I'm the person they are really talking about in the article. I do know that the "blackout" of discussion on suicide and possible prevention is more than likely a reason so many people successfully attempt. I don't think most people take suicidal talk seriously, and if they do, there are VERY few resources for them to turn to.

Thanks for a thought provoking vlog.

Hi Liz,
Thanks for this post. I also read the NYTimes article and found it very compelling. However, I'm not convinced that barriers to methods are the only ways in which suicide can be prevented. Are you familiar with the work of Dr. Thomas Joiner? He's a professor at Florida State specializing in suicidology. His theory is that there are distinct causes of suicide that are identifiable and treatable, and thus suicide should be seen as a health issue like heart disease or cancer. Because the vast majority of people suffering from a mental illness do not commit suicide and because suicide is not the exclusive province of the chronically mentally ill, Dr. Joiner identifies three factors in those most at risk of death by suicide: the learned ability to hurt oneself/becoming immune to the fear of death; a perceived feeling of isolation; a perceived feeling of being a burden to loved ones to such an extent that you think your death would be worth more than your life. I had the opportunity to hear Dr. Joiner speak recently, and his presentation made so much sense to me in light of the recent suicide of a dear friend, as well as my own struggle with depression. I'd love to hear your thoughts on Dr. Joiner's work if you're familiar with him. Thanks!

I think it's a false dichotomy: life or civil liberties. As I heard you state it, guns should not be available to those of us with serious mental illness. I always read that to mean schizophrenia and bipolar. I didn't hear you emphasize those with civil commitments in their past. So... you would seem to be describing a self-disclosure system. I don't think that gets us very far toward prevention, in reality. As one with bipolar, many hospitalizations and no commitments after several determined suicide attempts, I know I would lie to obtain a gun if I didn't have one. And if the psyche records of the non-committed become part of a public database, I'm quite sure I'm never working in this state again. It's the structured environment of work, family, friends that have allowed me to return from the abyss many times -- free to fall again, but also free to improve my structural supports and early warning systems too.

Suicide preventable? I don't think so. Spur of the moment...absolutely. I agree with your point. Can we hide the instrument? No...to many options.

My wife has diagnosed as bipolar yrs ago, and has tried twice. Both on impulse, she claims. I have to trust her.

Can suicide be prevented? No. As much as I try, I can't be there...not to hide the pills, but to prevent the trigger from igniting the darkness that leads to the OD.

Do I feel guilt...absolutely. Can't cure her...can't help her other than being there as much as I can....and I can't watch 24hrs a day. She doesn't want to be treated as an invalid, and I don't blame her.

She has to find her own path; I can only hope that the triggers don't trip when I am not around.

My 2 cents. I like your site and respect your candor. It can't be easy

Regards
E

This is intended as humorous observation from another depressed human being. At 2:42 you say "End your death" instead of "End your life".

Suicide is in the eye of the beholder. Slow suicide such as being grossly overweight, drugs, and drinking alcohol is OK, it's the quick suicides that are "Bad".

It is the human mind that is the problem, as we treat the planet equally bad today, with no thought for our grandchildrens inheritance, we are killing the planets balanced ecosystem (and thereby ourselves) in the pursuit of money.

Attempts: 3. Success rate: 0.

The old codger down the street has a .357 he's ready to sell me because he doesn't need it any longer; he's well enough armed from what I hear. I *love* going to the range with a buddy and firing at a target. The power of the gun in my hand, the placement of the bullet in the target close to the center of the bull's-eye -- that's satisfying.

However, I think it's better to continue to rent rather than buy. I don't think I want to blow a hole through anybody. Most importantly, I think it's critical that a mother doesn't have to experience the death of a child. As bitter as my life will get while she's still alive, the gun or pills don't go into action.

This is a question of despair. In my attempts, that thought had not crossed my mind. I just wanted it all to be over. And, now that I'm stabilized on my meds (same dosage for a year now), I can sit back and look at the world more objectively.

People were around to help me. Just don't count on them if you have a firearm because they won't be able to make it there in time; sell the gun to a dealer at a low price so there's a transfer record on file.

My grandfather was suicidal for a couple years, he talked often about what he would do if he could get his hands on any of the firearms my parents had taken away from him after my grandmother died. In the end, it was a full bottle of pain reliever / sleep aid that ended his life, combined with a geriatric liver that just couldn't take the strain. If we had allowed him to make his own decision about his life, he would have died a few years earlier. Instead, he lived long enough to suffer the absence of his wife; and long enough to outlive his daughter, when my mother died. His situation and final solution cause me to hesitate when it comes to thinking in absolutes on this subject.

Is suicide preventable? Yes. Are all suicides therefore preventable? Probably not. Should life outweigh civil liberties? I'm reminded of Patrick Henry, who once said, "Give me liberty, or give me death." I am also reminded of George Bernard Shaw, who wrote, "Liberty means responsibility. That is why most men dread it."

The question I would ask is whether giving up more civil liberties would make life more, or less worth the living. If trading in civil liberties makes life less worth the living, then it could drive suicide rates up, not down. I'm not sure there's a one-size-fits-all answer for this kind of thing.

I would like to believe it is.

I certainly believe it is impulsive, I have had periods where I have contemplated suicide for weeks but in the end it is an impulsive act.

I lost a friend to suicide years ago and find little comfort in the notion that he couldn't have been stopped.

I think perhaps that it is just a game of odds, how likely is some one to intervene, how likely is the overdose to be toxic, how likely is the rope to hold.

It takes people taking action to shift the odds in the favour of life.

I'm not lucky, nor am I glad to be alive. Truly!

What makes you or govt qualified to determine that the quality of my life is "worth saving"?

Worth living reclusively or otherwise? How dare you (collectively)? Say that my life is worth 'saving/living'. You all have not lived this life of turmoil/trauma/pain. Hourly. Nightly. Daily.

Nightmares haunt me. Days are endless. I stay sober and am speechless. What? Why? What is life for?

My state govt requires mental health checks before gun ownership and I am not in favor. WHY? What about the undiagnosed? The morbidly despondant that must struggle daily to say what I've been taught. "It's only bipolar talking." (big lie IMO)

Not true IMO. It's regret, it's fear, it's disgust, it's inability to be a professional after half my lifetime...

What do you know of that, oh sentate/rep voters? Little I should think.

________

Liz, I'm glad your attempts were unsuccessful. I think you might be right about there being some conflict between civil liberties and life on this issue. It would obviously be wrong to give a gun to someone likely to shoot themselves - someone who had recently made some other kind of suicide attempt, for example. But I think it's also wrong to restrict a whole group of people like this without good reason. (Personally I think everyone should have less easy access to guns, but whatever the rules are I think they should be more universally applied.)

Part of the solution might lie in the usual temporariness of the torment that leads someone to attempt suicide. Maybe for several months or even for two or three years after an attempt they should be restricted from gun ownership, but I think that ban should expire at some point. If it's a lifelong ban, it seems like just another way of maintaining the second class citizenship of a lot of people who already are very oppressed in many ways.

I think I agree with some of the other commenters that it might be a more useful suicide deterrent (at least in the long run) to try to make life more worth living, rather than just making it harder for people to kill themselves. In a slightly related matter, I heard of a recently published study that found almost every time throughout the 20th century when a conservative government was in power in England, the suicide rates went up there. I think it's true that environment and the absence of any reason for hope can sometimes drive people to attempt suicide.

Liz,

This is the best video you've done on YouTube... well done!

I am not insisting any of the following is the absolute truth but I do ask that you think objectively. I am aware it may be some what controversial but I feel its worth mentioning. I have suffered from intense depression and suicidal temptation for many years.

I am a supporter for increased gun control. In terms of effectiveness of suicide prevention I believe there is a large difference of potential for success between actions taken on impulse and that of the truly intent. I am in support of resources for prevention but I do not believe that this is a contributing factor in any significant way to the recent advancement of the mention gun control bill. This legislation is not a new idea and has been on the floor for years. But in the wake of any tragedy it is very easy to assign blame discriminately and provide support for what appears to be the easiest solution. In this case there is an unnerving amount of support to label all those with mental illness as having an increased potential to commit violent crimes to the degree that it warrants the removal of civil rights. This is perturbing to me because the problem that needs to be addressed is violent crimes involving guns however according to former APA president Paul Appelbaum, individuals with identified mental illness have been responsible for less than 5% of gun related violent crimes. The legislation being passed will provide up to 1.3 billion dollars… to potentially treat only 5% of the problem. It is the inadequate appropriation of funds to this intensity that truly bewilders me. Again I realize that this legislation will aid in suicide prevention but I find it unfortunate this has little to do with the rapid support of this particular movement.

Dearest Liz:
In response to your piece on suicide.
I write an opposition comment, and whole hearted disagree that removing means is the answer to reducing or preventing suicide.

Here we go again, let's take away the constitutional rights and civil liberties from those with mental disorders on the grounds that it's makes society and themselves safer.

FACT: people with mental disorders are no more or less dangerous than the general population.

Let's be reminded that those that are deemed a danger to themselves or others by some so called mental health professional have in reality fewer rights than a prison inmate and much worse care (the old 5150 as its stated as law in California is the removal of all civil rights due to a judgment call, without due process or representation by a lawyer or presentation/trial before a judge, or jury of their peers).

Now the Supreme Court has ruled those with mental disorders are not qualified to represent themselves in the courts; now let's extend this stupidity and insaneness to blame the guns and bridges. Anyone who has even a clue about reality and common sense can see what's going on. Last time I checked this was not NAZI Germany, and our constitution and bill of rights were intended for each and every citizen of this land.

Why don't we pull the drivers licenses of all with mental disorders since there are so many block walls out there (not to mention canyons, over passes, train crossings and large semi-trucks full of toxic ingredients)? Let’s make all those deemed to have mental disorders eat with plastic forks and knifes while being supervised by certified professionals also (since those metal ones are much too dangerous to be in the hands of those dangerous crazy people, and as an added bonus it might give those psychiatrist something to do besides write prescriptions promoted by their latest drug rep friends at Harvard or Stanford University).

Let’s also censor their speech so they don't secretly pass good suicide ideas around, and force medicate those with mental disorders into a zombie state that in all reality will kill them just fine over time anywise. (In this way big Pharma; Catch, Drug, and Release Hospitals, and the heartless political animals benefiting from their donations and funding can at the very least reap the tremendous profits from this prolific problem of suicide within are society{ did I forget to mention the APA and NAMI? Damn it!}).

I mean why not folks?

Isn’t it all about keeping everyone safe RIGHT! I could list ten thousand simple ways to off yourself quite adequately here without using a gun or bridge. Maybe we should make all people with mental disorders live in a safety bubbles on far away islands?

The New York Times has about much credibility as MAD magazine. Another one of those pesky speed bumps on this road of verbosity and fear mongering along the HWY to socialistic hell via journalistic enthusiasm; and just one more demon in a long line of liberal rags trying to propagate their own agenda to take away each citizens rights and especially the rights of those with mental disorders.

Maybe if we really wanted to stop or limit self destructive behavior including suicide; we can throw out the whole idea of a free press along with all our other rights. I'm sure the New York Times would love that one; since it would without doubt save the masses from the misery of reading their crap, and in turn limit the depression that may lead to suicidal thinking and idealization.

All these arguments against guns and so called other methods are just plain ignorant! To even think we can stop or limit suicide by removing the means is completely naive in both concept and results.

Wake up and smell the roses people.

Now, that should fire up and add falter to a few puppet pundits out there.

In closing this comment: If someone has truly without any doubt decided to end their own life; then please tell me how you intend to stop them from doing so?

I’m bipolar and own guns! I also have enough failed medications sitting in a box to bring down and kill a Water Buffalo. I guess that makes me too dangerous to have the same civil rights as any other citizen in the New York Times Opinion.

What if I just happened to decide to place those means in the hands of another for safe keeping while going through a major depressive episode?

Geez that would just make too much common sense now wouldn’t it!

Yours Truly
Stan

I see you didn't agree with Susanna Kaysen's ( Girl Interupted ) take on all this...

Either way, I'm glad you didn't have a gun on you at the time Liz.

Liz,
Thank you for your courage in stating your beliefs. As someone who's come very close to succeeding at suicide, I found the NYT article refreshing in its approach. I continue to be amazed at the utter cluelessness of most mental "health" professionals in this matter. I also do not understand why the suicide researchers do not tap into a huge resource--near completers--but they do not seem to want to hear from us or learn what we've learned about the process/journey of suicide. I feel quite invisible to those people who claim to want to understand this problem.
Sherry

I was going to read all the comments but decided to feel bad instead.

So, bipolar is all the rage... what about us polars?

In high school, I become fast friends with a new kid in town named Dave who "played" bass guitar. After a few months we drifted apart because Dave wasn't motivated to start a band as I was. See, Dave only "owned" a bass and didn't want to practice and even cruely mocked how we sounded when I came over with my guitar to jam. So we drifted apart but still were acquaints, really friendly in the hallway and goofed off in algebra class together brilliantly but didn't stay at each other houses anymore so I never got to find out that Dave was on medication nor later had any idea while waving across campus or bullsh*t'n in the halls that he was concocting an elaborate plan to trick a gullible friend into loaning him a hunting rifle.

PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong (and I thank the gods u didn't Liz!) but you could've registered a gun pretty easily when you were suffering right? [Single, pretty females in a big metropolis= prime assault candidates] I agree w/most of what u said but I don't think you can associate gun regulation so freely. I dunno; maybe I'm wrong. Anway I'm very glad you are here among us.

Oh, and I had so much f*cking guilt that I even couldn't show up Dave's "wake". I would actually became psychically ill when confronting those feelings. Too cowardly to even send flowers to his mother... [shakes head] Sad...